Quite often on this blog we've talked about the transmission hypothesis, which can be expressed in various forms, but which always boils down to the idea that the brain is a medium by which consciousness interacts with the physical world. When the brain dies, consciousness continues, though it is no longer physically embodied. This is one basic answer to the question of how personality can survive the death of the body.

One of the most common objections to this idea is that the mind can suffer severe impairment as a result of neurological damage or other physical problems, so that, even if the mind does survive death, it will survive only in a grossly impaired form. On the other hand, it is argued, if the postmortem mind is free of all physical impairments, then it bears little or no resemblance to the embodied mind and therefore amounts to a whole new mind. In this case, there is no continuity of consciousness between the premortem and postmortem mind, and so there is no individual survival.

There are two ways to counter this argument. The first is to forego philosophizing and simply look at the empirical evidence that convinced us (or some of us) of life after death in the first place. To me, the best evidence is found in the trance mediumship of women like Leonora Piper, Gladys Osborne Leonard, and Eileen Garrett, all of whom were studied intensively for decades by serious investigators, who left behind reams of stenographic records of hundreds of sittings. Some of the material that came through these mediums was incorrect, and a great deal of it was nonsense ("bosh," William James called it), but all serious researchers were eventually led to conclude that a significant minority of the communications contained information that the mediums could not have obtained by any normal means. These researchers were divided between the hypothesis of postmortem survival and the hypothesis of super-ESP.

Personally, I think the super-ESP idea has little merit; for a detailed discussion, see Chris Carter's Science and the Afterlife Experience. This leaves us with postmortem survival. And the hypothesis of personal survival is further supported by near-death experiences, out-of-body experiences, apparitions, deathbed visions, terminal lucidity, past-life recall, and other cases.

What all of these instances have in common is an insistence on continuity of consciousness. The deceased, speaking through mediums, tell us quite plainly that they are still the same individuals that they were when physically alive. This point is repeated over and over, almost ad nauseam. We are told that the transition between life and the afterlife can be so seamless that the person is unaware of having died. In other cases, the transition is more difficult, but even then the discarnate communicator invariably tells us that he has the same sense of self that he had when living on earth.

People who have had near-death experiences also report no disruption in the continuity of their consciousness. However much their consciousness may have been expanded or otherwise affected, they retain the sense that the entire episode happened to the old familiar I of personal experience.

Since this is what all the evidence tells us, there is really no reason to doubt it merely on philosophical grounds. It would make more sense to rethink our philosophical arguments than to discard empirical evidence.

But there's another way of tackling the problem — namely, to sketch out a philosophical position consistent with the empirical evidence. For what follows, I'm indebted to the contributions of several commenters on this blog, particularly Matt Rouge, who first brought up the concept of the I-thought and its entanglement with an informational matrix.

To get into this, we first need to think a little about what consciousness is.

Consciousness implies both a subject and an object. This much is obvious, but most people have a mistaken idea of what the subject is. I think it is this mistake that makes it hard to appreciate the force of the transmission hypothesis.

To describe what the subject is, let's first detail what it is not. The objects of consciousness include sensory input, mental imagery, logical reasoning processes, memories, imagination, feelings, and thoughts. Yes, even thoughts are objects, not subjects, of consciousness. What, then, is the subject? It is pure awareness – nothing more and nothing less.

Pure awareness, when linked to a specific set of objects, is known in some traditions as the I-thought. It is described this way in The Advaita Worldview: God, World, and Humanity, by Anantanand Rambachan: 

The I-thought is centered on an awareness that is permanently present, being timeless and self-revealing. Its content and nature are nothing but awareness, without which it has no existence or reality. … When the I-thought, whose nature is limitless awareness [ ] is subject to ignorance, it identifies itself with the characteristics of the body, senses, and mind in notions such as, "I am short," "I am blind," or "I am unhappy." Liberation from ignorance occurs when the I-thought [ ] comes to understand its nature as limitless awareness. … A requisite of such knowledge is a calm and translucent mind in which the I-thought is able to understand itself as nonobjectifiable, illuminating awareness, distinguishable from the body, senses, and mind, relating to all of these as subject to object, and as identical with brahman, the non-dual ground of all reality. …

All thoughts originate from and can be reduced or resolved back to the I-thought. The I-thought, on the other hand, can be traced back to its source in awareness, without which it ceases to be. Awareness, however, cannot be resolved or reduced it to anything else. It simply is. 

The I-thought persists throughout life, as well as during and after the transition to the afterlife. It thus accounts for the continuity of consciousness and for the often-reported insistence that the deceased "I" is the same as the physically embodied "I."

When we talk about an embodied consciousness – that is, the consciousness of a person living on earth – we're talking about an evolving dynamic process that involves all the objects of consciousness I listed above, and the I-thought, and the neurological and biological structures of the living organism. When we talk about a disembodied consciousness – the consciousness of a discarnate person – we're talking about an evolving dynamic process that involves all the objects of consciousness and the I-thought, but not the physical structures of the living organism. The absence of those physical structures is the key difference.

No one disputes that neurological damage and other physical problems can impair consciousness while it is embodied. The impairment occurs not because of any change in the pure awareness at the root of the I-thought but because the range of objects of consciousness is reduced. It may not be possible to recall memories, focus on logical reasoning, or formulate coherent thoughts. Again, all of these are objects, not the subject, of consciousness. Pure awareness remains uncorrupted and unimpaired, but the set of objects it can illuminate is narrowed, and the I-thought mistakenly accepts this narrowing as permanent. Upon passing over to the next life, the physical impairments are removed, and the full variety of objects is again available.

Now, for this to make sense, two things must be true. First, the objects of consciousness, even if temporarily lost while consciousness is embodied, cannot be permanently lost. If memories, thoughts, logical reasoning, and so forth are irretrievably lost, then even the transition to a discarnate state would not allow the I-thought to recover them. So there must be some way in which the objects of consciousness are preserved – whether we call it the Akashic records or whether we simply maintain that information, once brought into existence, cannot be destroyed.

Second, we must assume that there is a close relationship between one's awareness and the particular set of objects on which it has focused. Otherwise awareness, once liberated from its physical trappings, might focus on any and all objects of any consciousness that has ever been. In this case there would be no survival of the individual personality, but only a kind of universal mind that is aware of everything at once. While this idea might be philosophically appealing and it is found in some spiritual traditions, it's contradicted by the apparently reliable testimony of deceased persons speaking through mediums, as well as the testimony of people who've had near-death experiences, etc. And in any case, the very concept of the I-thought expressly serves to cover this relationship. The I-thought is pure awareness connected to a particular set of thoughts and memories — individuated and egoic, not universal and identityless. It is an I-thought, not a We-thought. 

Given an "entanglement" between the I-thought and the constellation of objects on which it has focused, the I-thought, once free of physical limits, will naturally focus on the one particular set of objects – memories, thoughts, feelings, etc. – that, added together, constitute a "personality." After all, what we call personality is only the intersection of the I-thought with a characteristic set of objects – distinctive memories, personal thoughts and feelings, recognizable habits of mind. This is how we can say that the personality survives death, even if the personality has been grossly attenuated or deformed by dementia, mental illness, and other impairments. It is also how we can say that in cases of terminal lucidity, the dying person abruptly recovers his or her personality ("she was herself again"). 

An analogy might make this whole thing a little clearer. Imagine a person who is able to see only through a narrow horizontal slit in a blindfold. His vision is restricted to a hazy line, and he thinks of himself as nearly sightless. At a certain point, the blindfold is removed, and after a short period of disorientation and adjustment, he is able to see a much wider range of objects. In this case the person's eyesight corresponds to pure awareness, his self-identification as "nearly sightless" corresponds to the I-thought, and the slitted blindfold corresponds to physical limitations and impairments. The person's capacity for vision actually remains unchanged throughout, but the objects of his vision are restricted at first and relatively unrestricted later, and the I-thought (in its ignorance) mistakes this temporary limitation for a permanent condition.

The bottom line is that the skeptical objection to the transmission hypothesis is flawed in two respects. First, it's inconsistent with the empirical evidence. (Naturally, skeptics will dispute or dismiss this very evidence, but that's a separate issue.) Second, it depends on an understanding of consciousness that confuses subject and object. It assumes that thoughts and memories and reasoning processes are the same thing as awareness, when in fact all of these are objects of awareness in the particular form of the I-thought.

If we look at consciousness as an I-thought entangled with an information matrix in an evolving system that is subject to temporary limitations and impairments, but in which no data are ever permanently lost, the skeptical objection simply becomes irrelevant. 

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  1. Ian Wardell Avatar

    Amos Oliver Doyle – || If I were asked to define my ‘identity’ how would I respond? Well first of all it needs to be made clear that my identity is not ‘me’. It is not my I-thought, my awareness or soul. My identity is a construct, a garment so to speak dependant upon a physical existence. ||
    Yeah I would disagree with this too. But I think they might be a lot of talking at cross-purposes. I mean my identity is *by definition* my self or soul or “I thought”.
    On the other hand I wouldn’t say what *I essentially am* is identical to my ego. I am not identical to my current pre-occupations, my current desires, my currents interests and what have you.

  2. no one Avatar
    no one

    “I like to think in terms of Universal Consciousness partitioning itself into countless entities, all of which go their own way (at some level), but are never fundamentally distinct from their origins, or from each other.”
    True, but as I see it, the objects of the I-thought do seem to take on a life of their own. An habitual focus is hard to break.

  3. Bruce Siegel Avatar

    Matt said:
    “I think that is true. But what if all those countless entities are also *working toward* the creation of Source?!”
    I agree! It works both ways. Definitely.
    And, at the same time, Source is fundamental. In some sense, it all *starts* with Source, even though “start” is a problematic term in a cosmos that doesn’t operate within the context of time as we know it.
    Anyway, that’s how it seems to me, as logically inconsistent as my words might appear.
    Maybe it’s just my need to believe in One Thing (that I call Source or Love). But who’s to say that just because I *need* something it must be wrong?

  4. Bruce Siegel Avatar

    no one said:
    “True, but as I see it, the objects of the I-thought do seem to take on a life of their own. An habitual focus is hard to break.”
    Exactly. That’s what I meant by they “go their own way.”
    Though I added “at some level” because, as I just said to Matt, I feel that behind the scenes, as deeply hidden as it may sometimes be, Source is always the driving force.
    It’s funny how both your comment and Matt’s–the ones I’m now responding to–both boil down to: Bruce, please have more respect for the Parts, not just the Whole.
    I do, I do, but it’s the Whole that pulls me, like a North Star.

  5. Art Avatar
    Art

    \\”Amos Oliver Doyle – || If I were asked to define my ‘identity’ how would I respond?”//
    —————
    I’m a complete and total mess. I hope I’ve got a lot more sense and wisdom on the other side than I do here?

  6. Juan Avatar
    Juan

    “A High Self with so transformed a consciousness and perspective of many different lives and personalities and realms of existence that it could make such a decision for its own reasons, would not be human, would not be the human person. It would be alien to its human.”
    No more alien tan an adult in relation to the child he / she was and yet remain the same person because they share the same story. That’s how I see it.

  7. Matt Rouge Avatar
    Matt Rouge

    Bruce wrote,
    ||It’s funny how both your comment and Matt’s–the ones I’m now responding to–both boil down to: Bruce, please have more respect for the Parts, not just the Whole.||
    Well, there’s that, but also the issue of dialectic. Consciousness is paradoxical. Think about your daily thoughts: “I went to the store today and bought some veggies.” OK, this is probably accompanied by a picture of yourself at the store (either 1st or 3rd person or a kind of mix), a little flash to match the words.
    So, in this thought you are an “I” thinking about “I,” but the latter is the subject of the thought. So “you” are outside “you,” examining “you,” symbolically describing “you.”
    This is messy enough, but things get *really* crazy when you start thinking about your own thought processes in real time. Subject and object get very confused very quickly.
    My feeling is that the solution to this I/Not-I, Self/Not-Self “problem” IS the Universe. So Source/Brahman/Sat-Chit-Ananda is “there” as “driver” only because S/He “managed” to be Him/Herself despite these “difficulties.”

  8. SPatel Avatar
    SPatel

    Was taking another look at the QBism interpretation for quantum mechanics today, made me think of this I-Thought Concept:
    http://www.nature.com/news/physics-qbism-puts-the-scientist-back-into-science-1.14912
    When combined with the Peer-to-Peer hypothesis seems very close to the “Users In the Program” idea Michael’s mentioned a few times (though perhaps not in those precise terms).

  9. Bruce Siegel Avatar

    Matt said:
    ||So, in this thought you are an “I” thinking about “I,” but the latter is the subject of the thought. So “you” are outside “you,” examining “you,”||
    Someone who talks about this, in one of my favorite NDE books ever, is Natalie Sudman. She actually goes several steps further than what you described.
    Go to the paragraph that starts: “I’m able to look at each of those “me’s” and at the same time . . . ”
    https://books.google.com/books?id=2YVeBAAAQBAJ&pg=PT15&lpg=PT15&dq=I%27m+able+to+look+at+each+of+those+%22me%27s%22+and+at+the+same+time&source=bl&ots=PXh_osiPzH&sig=OS0Y_YLT1YSWShG9WKKn6WhXMtQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAWoVChMIwZDkkry7xwIVEFGICh1rFgrN#v=onepage&q=I'm%20able%20to%20look%20at%20each%20of%20those%20%22me's%22%20and%20at%20the%20same%20time&f=false

  10. snorkler Avatar
    snorkler

    I am sorry to say that I find this whole post including comments Gobbledegook. I’ve tried, believe me I’ve tried, but I just cannot get ‘into’ this stuff anymore.So long and good luck in your quests everyone. I’m off to spend the remainder of my sorry life in the jungles of New Guinea ! Regards, Bill.

  11. Amos Oliver Doyle Avatar
    Amos Oliver Doyle

    Thanks Bruce for the link to the book. The excerpt appears to be well written and very interesting. I think I will order one. – AOD

  12. Matt Rouge Avatar
    Matt Rouge

    Bruce,
    Right! That is the dimensionality of consciousness (i.e., Ascension, when you go up) that I talk about from time to time. Makes total sense.
    IOW, Source is consciousness of infinite dimensionality. In her NDE, it seems that she was looking at herself from very high dimensionality.

  13. no one Avatar
    no one

    Bruce, Natalie Sudman sounds like a Nanci Danison clone to me. I posted an interview with her on my FB page that rubbed me the wrong way, same way as Nanci, a while ago. She, like Nanci, had an NDE (but didn’t code) and came back a prophet, telling everyone how it is. A lot of mileage out of a brief experience. Yuck.

  14. Michael Prescott Avatar

    Good luck, Bill (snorkler)! The jungles of New Guinea sound like a great place to make a new beginning.

  15. Bruce Siegel Avatar

    Amos and Matt—glad you find the link interesting.
    “A lot of mileage out of a brief experience.”
    No one, this is far from the case with Natalie Sudman. She makes clear that she’s had mystical experiences all her life, and says: “Although I won’t describe my OBE as a revolution, it is part of a personal evolution.”
    As to whether she and Danison are know-it-alls, as you suggest, I guess what I hear as confidence, you interpret as arrogance.

  16. Amos Oliver Doyle Avatar
    Amos Oliver Doyle

    Hey Snorkler! I can’t say that I disagree with you. Sometimes I find my own comments gobbledygook or I think it’s all just wordsmithing. On the other hand it does stretch my brain cells a little bit to think about these things but if I were being honest, cogitating about these esoteric ideas makes me less inclined to believe any of them. :^)
    Have a happy life in New Guinea. If I were younger I would be right behind you. – AOD

  17. Michael Prescott Avatar

    “Have a happy life in New Guinea. If I were younger I would be right behind you.”
    Sometimes I fantasize about moving to Hawaii. This is the limit of my imagination. Maybe someday I’ll even do it. In the meantime, I will live vicariously through snorkler!
    Seriously, Bill, I hope you find what you’re looking for in the unspoiled remote corners of New Guinea. It sounds like the adventure of a lifetime, and probably considerably more rewarding than the armchair philosophizing that characterizes my life …

  18. Matt Rouge Avatar
    Matt Rouge

    I think it would be awesome to go to New Guinea. Please help the orangutans there. They seem like some really good guys!

  19. Sleepers Avatar
    Sleepers

    All philosophy is gobbledegook. We’re trying to explain in English and on human terms what has never been explained and can’t be explained even by those who have claimed to experience it. We’re far from scientifically understanding the mind and the universe around us, what really makes us think, at this time, on this blog, we’d get clear concrete answers? Something’s going on out there. And if it’s all random nonsense that sprung into existence because of atoms bouncing around and exploding, then, well, that’s even stranger gobbledegook. It may be the right answer, I don’t know, but that seems pretty doubtful given everything we continuously discuss here, even if we are getting a bit ahead of ourselves…

  20. John Avatar
    John

    Michael,
    Long-time reader but haven’t posted a reply on here in a year or so. Great piece. My thoughts:
    This all makes some sense, but I am left with a fundamental teleological question: what is the relationship between the ontological (pure awareness) and the ontic (the objects of awareness)? On the one hand, if “I” am truly not the objects of my awareness, then some sort of ego dissolution seems to make sense, i.e., enlightenment would be equivalent with the cessation, not continuation of awareness (so Rambachan). On the other hand, if enlightenment is synonymous with the cessation of objectivity, then what good is objectivity to begin with? Why the ontic? Why the particular? Why things at all?
    For Aurobindo, it’s that God enjoys creation. So Barth. I want to hold onto this idea. The continuation of consciousness seems profoundly right and maningful. As Orthodox theologian David B. Hart writes of the end times, “God is on the side of the particular, the name and the face of the one lost, that his justice” (410). Of course, a Buddhist might tell me it only seems profoundly right because I’m profoundly mired in maya and I need to let go of the objects of experience until I snuff out the candle of consciousness and obtain enlightenment. For the Buddhist, continuation is precisely the problem, not the solution – what turns the wheel. Instead of dying properly, one keeps identifying the self with what one is not both in life and in death.
    It occurs to me, however, that maybe the Buddhist and the Christian are actually saying the same thing structurally: maybe realizing that the objects of awareness (the ontic) ≠ awareness itself (the ontological) is the same thing as the Christian saying that one must rightly realize one’s relationship, as a created being, to one’s creator. In both cases, one is both and is not the infinite. One participates in the infinite but is always at a distance of the infinite. Maybe it’s just Gregory of Nyssa all over again: we go endlessly up the ladder towards God, never reaching our destination yet ever increasing in knowledge, paradoxically, by going deeper into the darkness. In this sense, we are both are and are not God, both pure awareness and not, both samara and nirvana, both a continuation and cessation…

  21. Julie Baxter Avatar
    Julie Baxter

    “Seriously, Bill, I hope you find what you’re looking for in the unspoiled remote corners of New Guinea. It sounds like the adventure of a lifetime, and probably considerably more rewarding than the armchair philosophizing that characterizes my life …” – Michael
    Well, at least that’s a step up from couch potatoing. 🙂

  22. Matt Rouge Avatar
    Matt Rouge

    John,
    Great comment! You know your philosophy…
    You wrote,
    ||This all makes some sense, but I am left with a fundamental teleological question: what is the relationship between the ontological (pure awareness) and the ontic (the objects of awareness)?||
    I think this is resolved by understanding that ultimate consciousness is both the embracer of all things and composed of them. It is the end state to which we are working, but it is also the father/mother of such work.

  23. Bruce Siegel Avatar

    Sleeper said:
    “All philosophy is gobbledegook. We’re trying to explain in English and on human terms what has never been explained and can’t be explained even by those who have claimed to experience it. ”
    I like that.
    It reminds me of how I felt during my first ayahuasca journey, during the latter portion of it, when I realized that I would, in fact, be returning to my body. What I had experienced up to then had been so profound, so beautiful, and so alien to language, I truly believed that the only sensible approach was never to use words again. Never to speak.
    It’s not just that my experience was ineffable, you understand. I’m saying that I felt that if I never spoke again, I could never again be trapped in illusion. It was as though the spiritual state were not just inexpressible in terms of language, but the *opposite* of it.
    I remember thinking of Earth as Word City—a realm not only made possible by words, but in some way, built from them. (And I thought of the famous line—in the beginning was the Word.)
    Well, I’ve obviously started speaking again. And I once again derive pleasure from words and the challenge of expressing myself as clearly as I can through their use.
    But I tell you what—I do *not* take language seriously. Not in the way I sense that many of my brothers and sisters on this planet do. Not in the way I used to.
    Thanks for the comment, Sleepers.

  24. Amos Oliver Doyle Avatar
    Amos Oliver Doyle

    Bruce,
    Will you elaborate a little bit on your comment that ” It was as though the spiritual state were not just inexpressible in terms of language, but the *opposite* of it.” – AOD

  25. Kathleen Avatar
    Kathleen

    Sleeper, I sort of agree.
    I see it the way the Dali Lama recently put (I’m paraphrasing): “I’m just like you…I have many thoughts. But I see that thoughts are just like trains passing.” Your thoughts aren’t you; they’re like cars passing on the freeway. You can stop and direct your thoughts. At least to me, the element that can stop and direct your thoughts is the real You. Maybe (I think?) this is what Michael was getting at in his post.

  26. Matt Rouge Avatar
    Matt Rouge

    Sleeper wrote,
    Sleeper said:
    ||All philosophy is gobbledegook. We’re trying to explain in English and on human terms what has never been explained and can’t be explained even by those who have claimed to experience it.||
    And Bruce responded,
    ||It’s not just that my experience was ineffable, you understand. I’m saying that I felt that if I never spoke again, I could never again be trapped in illusion. It was as though the spiritual state were not just inexpressible in terms of language, but the *opposite* of it.||
    I am sympathetic to these viewpoints, but I would also like to point out that, in expressing them, you are actually engaged in philosophy. Literally.
    Sleeper is working the realm of epistemology, the philosophy of knowledge, and Bruce is working in the realm of epistemology and semantics (that’s my opinion, of course).
    I’m sympathetic because I’ve had some spiritual experiences that transcended words. In one in particular, I was in communication with other entities but *not using concepts.* Of course, “not using concepts” is how I describe the experience as translated into my current hardware.
    The reason why we engage in philosophy is because it’s necessary to any progress we can make. I know a lot of people think it’s all “science” these days and philosophy is irrelevant. Far from it. The underpinnings of science (which was originally called in English “natural philosophy”) are philosophical. The scientific method itself is not prima facie true but based on an epistemological stance. The skeptics’ “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” is also an epistemological claim (that happens to be false–there is no definition of “extraordinary,” and only sufficient evidence is required to substantiate any claim).
    Now, sure, a lot of progress we make these days is based on applied science, trial and error in the laboratory and factory, and doesn’t require a whole lot of high-falutin’ thinking. But in terms of really pushing forward with a new and deeper understanding of our Universe, it is absolutely necessary.

  27. Simon Oakes Avatar
    Simon Oakes

    “All philosophy is gobbledygook”
    Well, yes and no. From a sufficiently advanced/expanded perspective, I’m certain that humanity’s best efforts at philosophy, theology and so on must – even at their finest – look to be wholly inadequate.
    Bearing this in mind is important, as any philosophising needs to be done in a spirit of humility. For me, if history (not to mention the current situation!) tells us anything it is that theological/philosophical ‘certainties’ can be the most dangerous and destructive things going.
    But this does not render doing philosophy at best a waste of time or necessarily misleading. We are where we are, and we need to develop and nurture ways suitable to us of thinking and conceptualising that can accommodate and make at least some sense of our insights & experience (especially those we regard as spiritual).
    For me doing this is part of being human and why we are here. Indeed, if the reports from the afterlife discussed on this blog are anything like true, our limitations in this regard will remain after we die and require further such work. I’m with those posting on this blog who – without in any way questioning the genuine nature of reported NDEs – think that after we die, and once those NDE type experiences (no matter how wonderful & valuable) are out of the way, we’re back with what and who we are.

  28. Simon Oakes Avatar
    Simon Oakes

    Just to add, perhaps the best way of characterising the kind of thinking discussed here is as a set of metaphors. By that I mean ideas & images that capture something about reality, but which are there to be seen through and discarded when the time is right.
    In this regard I recently came across Science being described as ‘a body of metaphors for what is measurable.’
    I love this, but it will probably upset those wedded to scientific realism!

  29. GregL Avatar
    GregL

    Real interesting and meaningful post and commentary.
    I think that I have, experienced this “I” “me” dichotomy, once, via lucid dreaming. My flirtation with “enlightenment’ began when I found myself floating in outer space and,finding this quite impossible, determined that I was dreaming.
    I decided to go with the flow and increased my speed. I had the intention of hitting light speed. I was in for a huge surprise. As I moved faster and faster, there came a point when the “me” (GregL) suddenly both expanded exponentially and disappeared. “Me” (ego) was gone, but “I” was everywhere and everywhen, a huge “shimmering” (best I can describe it) “void” of non local consciousness. It was just a kind of peaceful “I am” experience. Just as suddenly, I felt a sharp deceleration, and “me” popped back into existence, a localized personal consciousness again.
    I’ll never forget the experience. It was both a taste of infinity and the personal experience of wave/particle duality. The lasting effect of this and other LD’s that I have had is to make me wonder about what dreams really are, and to doubt highly materialistic theories about them. I could have never dreamed up (pun intended) this experience in a million years. There is a vastness in us, no doubt about it. Sometimes I am convinced that we are dreaming up this reality too.
    If any of you are proficient at lucid dreaming,and want a taste of this infinite mind, I suggest you try it.
    GregL

  30. SPatel Avatar
    SPatel

    @GregL: Last I heard there are not only poor materialist explanations for why we dream, but there weren’t necessarily even good theories for why so many animal species sleep.
    One dream researcher, the neuroscientist Patrick McNamara, has been willing to say he thinks there is something to precognitive dreams.

  31. Bruce Siegel Avatar

    AOD said:
    ||Will you elaborate a little bit on your comment that ” It was as though the spiritual state were not just inexpressible in terms of language, but the *opposite* of it.” ||
    Thanks for the question, AOD. I’m on vacation and have some to write, so here goes. I enjoy your posts and am sure that much of what I have to say is already familiar to you.
    Matt, this is also in response to your defense of philosophy. Philosophy and language go hand in hand.
    Our essence is wholeness. Oneness. That’s our original state, and the “place” to which we continually return. Greg L just described it well in his account of his lucid dream:
    ||“I” was everywhere and everywhen, a huge “shimmering” (best I can describe it) “void” of non local consciousness.||
    Greg got there through a lucid dream, others have done it in NDEs, or through meditating. Many of us have reached that state through the use of certain traditional medicines.
    So that’s our fundamental nature—the undivided Being/state-of-consciousness, we call Source.
    But here’s reality’s other side: in order to experience certain adventures or story lines, Source sends out parts of itself to enter into the state we know so well here on Earth: separation and limitation. Without the ability to thus thicken the plot, Source’s eternal bliss would be less blissful.
    And that dynamic—the thrill of overcoming challenges and finding Its way back to Its original perfect self —is so intoxicating, so irresistible, that Source finds endless ways to play the game.
    What are the props that make the game possible? Bodies, time, and words. Each of these diverts our attention from wholeness, and keeps us focused on individual, isolated, aspects of reality. (That’s why the essence of meditation is release.)
    Bodies, time, and words are beautiful things! They give us pleasure. They provide opportunity for learning and growth. They set in motion this endlessly fascinating (though often painful) game we play.
    But in the larger sense, they’re limiters. Beautiful limiters. And only in surrendering them do we get to go back home.

  32. Matt Rouge Avatar
    Matt Rouge

    Great experience, GregL!
    You wrote,
    ||The lasting effect of this and other LD’s that I have had is to make me wonder about what dreams really are, and to doubt highly materialistic theories about them.||
    Yes, I have LDs too. I agree that the experiences don’t jib well with materialistic explanations.

  33. Jussi Avatar
    Jussi

    Such interesting and deep conversation, I’ve been looking for such and feel parched! Thank you for this.
    In this regard, a personal experience, a dream, and a view of Singularity of Vernor Vinge and Kurtzweil and the Overmind of Sri Aurobindo.
    Personal experience: I was at my first group shamanic journey. This was right after 9/11, and I’d chanced on a memorial to my high school girlfriend’s mother who had committed suicide a couple of years earlier. Through that I made contact with the girlfriend.
    At the shaman’s she instructed to make a spirit canoe… and quite spontaneously, the girlfriend’s mom came into my body from the right side… it was unmistakable, it felt real. So we called her daughter, who soon came into my body from the left, again, unmistakable and real. The shaman then sang a song to Mother… this was all unprompted and spontaneous. Afterward, the two of us living had access to each other’s bodies at will – it felt like we entered each other’s bodies for a bit, felt everything twice etc. Again very real. We ultimately decided to put a stop to that. One point being, mediumship can be with the living as well as the dead, and often a medium may be reading your memories and impressions – as well as the departed one’s. And in fact both are the same in a real sense.
    The dream: a Civil War era cemetery, large oak at the far end, and I’m stepping from one grave to the next. The vision – ‘I’ am continuous, demarked by a veil, a mist that terrifies but is only a mist, a ditch, in between plots. Plots are our lives of course in a pun.
    Further, soul groups – there are those near my plot that are in similar groups, further on the colors change gradually and there is less in common.
    But the crucial bit of information is that the mist, the veil, the ditch exists between the grave plots on all sides – between current and prior lives, and between concurrent lives as well. That is, you and me are reincarnations of each other, or rather of a common awareness. The same thing that keeps us from our other lives is what keeps each other from each other while living.
    OK. Singularity or Overmind. We fall into a duality fallacy when thinking of individuality vs cosmic existence. While there is a continuum, the experience is of enhanced individuality within the group consciousness, that is, we don’t necessarily lose our personality or personal experience when combining into a larger grouping… just as our cells don’t lose their separate existence when combining to form our bodies.
    I’ll add a fourth, that this sense of ‘I’, once freed of identification with ‘this’ body and brain, is free to manifest, within certain limits, across the living… Think of Christ Consciousness or Buddha Consciousness from the point of view of Christ or Buddha. Christ even explicitly said, where there are two or more of you I will be with you. The awareness and individuality may ‘time share’ across two or more bodies and consciousnesses… it helps to be famous and be the philosophical/emotional and spiritual fountainhead of a religion, of course 🙂

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